SEO Agency to Affiliate: How Julie Adams 12x’d Her Income

I’m astir to interrogation 1 of my favourite SEOs successful the world, Julie Adams.

I archetypal learned astir Julie’s communicative successful The Affiliate Lab, wherever she shared her acquisition of quitting the integer selling bureau that she worked astatine and switching implicit to affiliate SEO.

Now, she’s making much wealth successful 1 period than she did successful an full twelvemonth astatine the agency!

Stick astir for this interrogation due to the fact that we’re going to get into not lone her communicative but her full process connected however she ranks websites — from backlinks to on-site SEO.

Basically, everything she does to get her affiliate portfolio ranked today.

If you similar video content, cheque this interrogation with Julie Adams.

Transitioning from Client to Affiliate SEO

Matt: Hi Julie. Before we get started, wherefore don’t you springiness everyone a small heads up connected who you are and what you bash successful this satellite of SEO?

Julie: Sure, acknowledgment for having me, Matt.

I’ve been successful SEO for astir 7 oregon 8 years.

I started astatine the bottom, not knowing much, and worked successful an agency.

I began moving with contented and rapidly fell successful emotion with everything that goes into SEO — including the method aspects, past seeing results and making money.

So, I worked astatine the bureau during the day, past I would spell location and bash affiliate SEO astatine night.

So I conscionable benignant of stumbled my mode into SEO, and I’ve had beauteous bully success.

Matt: Awesome, we’re precise excited to perceive much astir your SEO communicative — but wherefore don’t we commencement astatine the beginning.

First off, however aged are you? Where are you from? Where are you living? What’s the afloat communicative there?

Julie: I’m 27, retired of Orlando, Florida.

I’ve been present my full life. I emotion it.

I’m large into the outdoors and each that — erstwhile I’m not doing the techie stuff.

Matt: Born and raised successful the South?

Julie: I grew up successful the Sarasota/Venice area, truthful ever astir the beach.

I moved present erstwhile I was successful 4th oregon 5th grade, truthful I was large into Disney, large into everything that Floridians are into — each that bully stuff!

Matt: Awesome! And what benignant of acquisition bash you have? Did you spell to precocious school, college?

Julie: I’m a assemblage dropout.

I was really a concern business major. I went to Valencia Community College, got my associate’s grade successful concern administration, and started my bachelor’s degree.

Then I astir failed 1 people — and I’m the benignant of idiosyncratic that gets truly demotivated if I don’t perfectly excel astatine something.

An accidental came up to enactment astatine an SEO agency conscionable arsenic I was astir to neglect retired of that class. I decided to conscionable driblet retired of schoolhouse and prosecute integer selling afloat time.

So my bachelor’s grade is inactive connected hold!

Matt: Interesting, I person a akin property type.

If I can’t beryllium truly bully astatine something, there’s nary constituent successful it for maine — I’ve discontinue a cardinal things due to the fact that of that, truthful I get that…

How did you get into SEO? How did the full happening start?

Julie: I honestly stumbled into it.

When I started the bureau job, I was moving astatine a movie theater, truthful I was fundamentally scooping popcorn.

That was my archetypal job. I besides did immoderate babysitting connected the side, which is really however I met my brag astatine the agency.

He recognized that I was beauteous smart, needed an accidental and conscionable benignant of scooped maine up similar popcorn!

I started moving astatine the bureau without adjacent knowing what the word SEO stood for.

It was a full enigma to me. I thought it was conscionable these 3 letters.

I started arsenic an 18 oregon 19-year aged going into this bureau setting, and my brag fundamentally conscionable said, “You’re successful complaint of content. You’re successful complaint of links.”

Initially, I was like, “Great, what does that mean?”

And past I conscionable benignant of learned connected the occupation from there, successful each honesty.

I didn’t get immoderate ceremonial grooming oregon thing similar that.

Matt: Interesting, truthful did they conscionable springiness you in-house training? Was it mostly based connected their SOPs and interior knowledge?

Or did you instrumentality immoderate courses oregon larn SEO from immoderate different source?

Julie: This was erstwhile SEO conscionable stopped being sketchy.

People were utilizing spun contented and SAPE links and tactics similar that.

That was my archetypal thought of what SEO meant. So, erstwhile I archetypal started, I was managing spun content, editing it, penning immoderate contented myself and managing nexus orders.

When I got there, we had nary modular operating procedures — it was just, “Do X, Y, and Z, and don’t suffer a client!”

Matt: Makes sense… I mean, that’s the basal plan!

Let’s speech a small spot much astir the agency.

First off, I’m funny to cognize wherefore you decided to permission it?

Julie: Money and time.

I’m fiercely independent. I emotion SEO. I stumbled into thing that I truly enjoy.

I felt truly fortunate due to the fact that of each that, but I was moving 40 immoderate unusual hours a week.

And arsenic you tin astir apt archer by however I’m describing this agency, it’s small.

I was 1 of 3 halfway employees astatine the time, and I fundamentally deed the ceiling.

There was nary country to grow, determination was nary accidental to marque much money, determination was nary truly nary country to larn thing other — Every time you spell in, you bash your work, and you spell home…

Then I discovered affiliate SEO, astir apt however everybody other discovers it. I was conscionable hoping to marque a small passive income.

I was bully astatine SEO, and I wanted the escaped clip and the money!

Matt: I get that 100%. And you tin propulsion this question close backmost astatine maine if you don’t consciousness comfy with it, but what was your monthly oregon yearly wage astatine that agency?

Julie: I don’t retrieve what I started at.

It was decidedly astir minimum wage due to the fact that I had nary acquisition — truthful it was astir apt 8 oregon 9 bucks an hour, immoderate minimum wage was astatine the time.

And I maxed retired astatine astir $40k a year.

Matt: And however galore clients did you negociate for $40k a year?

Julie:  The astir that I managed astatine 1 clip was determination astir 70 oregon 80.

I personally worked with hundreds of accounts erstwhile I worked there, but astatine the peak, I was managing upwards of 80 accounts astatine once.

Matt: That’s insane!

I mean, that’s an awesome ROI for the agency, but however astir your accent levels? How were you capable to grip 80 clients astatine a time?

Julie: It was truly stressful!

I wasn’t ever honorable astir what I could handle, truthful I would conscionable bash immoderate I could.

I was fundamentally the brains of the operation. I had radical to constitute content. I had radical that would assistance maine enactment each the pieces into place.

So, you could benignant of deliberation of maine arsenic much of a conductor…

I built retired the plans, and past idiosyncratic other would instrumentality them. That’s the lone mode it was possible…

But it was decidedly stressful to beryllium expected to reply questions for 80 antithetic accounts.

Like, “Why aren’t they ranking?”

You can’t propulsion up a study successful a meeting. You were expected to cognize the answers disconnected the apical of your head.

So, that was astir apt the astir stressful part.

Matt: Wow, that’s what they telephone a proceedings by fire!

Julie: I’m grateful for that, though, due to the fact that the fig of websites I negociate present is conscionable chump alteration successful comparison.

Matt: That brings maine to my adjacent question. I’m definite you learned rather a fewer skills connected the occupation that carried implicit to your affiliate career.

Can you interaction upon that a small bit?

Julie: I mean, SEO, for sure. I had 80 clients to play with.

In the beginning, it wasn’t that many, but I did person clients to play with, and it wasn’t similar they were my clients. If I mislaid them, honestly, I inactive had a job.

So successful that sense, I had country to experimentation —it was that benignant of environment.

Matt: Got it.

When you were considering making the leap from bureau to affiliate SEO, what fears oregon thought processes were going connected successful your mind?

Julie: Everything that you tin deliberation of!

I person generalized anxiousness — I overthink everything. And jumping vessel from a comfy presumption successful an manufacture that I emotion was truly scary.

Now, I ever knew that I would person a occupation determination because, arsenic I said, it was a tiny company. I really had to springiness them six months announcement to leave!

So I wasn’t disquieted that I wouldn’t beryllium capable to instrumentality to the agency…

I was conscionable acrophobic that I’d person to spell backmost with my process betwixt my legs — having to admit that I tried thing and failed.

Matt: I was reasoning astir that precocious too…

That’s what held my travel arsenic an entrepreneur backmost an other twelvemonth oregon two.

And it’s specified an irrational fear!

What would hap if you really had to spell backmost to your job. On your archetypal back, bash you deliberation your colleagues would say, “Oh, look astatine her — present she is. Oh, my God. She didn’t marque it arsenic a palmy entrepreneur.”

Of people not, right?

So radical listening, instrumentality enactment —  fearfulness of nonaccomplishment is simply a almighty fear.  It astir apt comes from our lizard brains oregon immoderate benignant of prehistoric societal conditioning, but it’s an irrational fear.

No 1 is going to attraction astatine each if you didn’t win successful your effort to onslaught disconnected connected your own.

Julie: It’s a fearfulness that everyone has — and it’s thing that tin assistance you turn too.

Although I’m uncomfortable with the thought of failing, I try to beryllium uncomfortable successful beingness if that makes sense.

If I’m successful my comfortableness zone, I’m not growing.

So you conscionable benignant of person to instrumentality the leap, akin to what you did.

Matt: I get that 100%.

So, what was it similar the time that you turned successful your notice, and you said six months and I’m out?

Julie: So I’d benignant of been moving connected it debased key. My brag knew what I was doing. He knew that I was astir to merchantability a website, helium knew however overmuch I was going to merchantability it for, but I don’t deliberation helium enactment each those pieces together.

I sold my archetypal website for astir $30k… A beauteous bully magnitude for idiosyncratic successful their aboriginal 20s and decidedly capable to prolong maine for astatine slightest a mates of months to spot if I’m going to beryllium bully oregon not.

The time that I discontinue was the time that I recovered retired that the tract sold.

I recovered retired portion I was astatine work, I got an email, and past I instantly ran into his bureau —  aft having my anxiousness onslaught — and said, “I’m quitting. I did this, I privation to bash this. I can do this. This is impervious of concept. SEO isn’t immoderate get-rich-quick strategy that you spot connected the internet. This wealth is going to beryllium successful my account. I’m quitting. How overmuch announcement bash you need?”

And helium was shocked! He didn’t deliberation that I’d really ever bash it, but we yet settled connected six months. So I stayed for different six months.

Matt: That’s great, and bully connected you for giving them a six months notice! That’s astir 12x what radical usually do, truthful that’s amazing.

Do you genuinely person nary clients now? Are you afloat affiliate, oregon bash you inactive support immoderate clients?

Julie: I would accidental 99.99% affiliate. I person 1 relationship that pays maine nether $300 a month, and it’s benignant of a favour for a friend.

I truly conscionable negociate their contented and bash a small spot of their on-page, but it’s by nary means substantial.

So it’s a 100% affiliate astatine this point.

Matt: I heard you accidental that the trigger constituent for you handing successful your announcement is erstwhile you flipped your archetypal website.

So, it sounds similar you were doing a small moonlighting — moving astatine the bureau during the day, moving connected affiliate astatine night.

What benignant of setup did you person going connected that made you consciousness comfortable? Did you person 1 affiliate tract moving successful the background? A couple? What did that look like?

Julie: I had 1 tract that I was gearing up to sell, but implicit the people of a twelvemonth oregon two, I started gathering a caller website each quarter.

I wanted to get them out of the sandbox so that by the clip I quit, I had not conscionable the $30k from selling my archetypal site, I besides had further income and that residual income replaced what I was making astatine the agency.

So I had this bully chunk of alteration from selling the tract positive ongoing income, and I needed that to consciousness comfortable.

Matt: Yeah, I get it. I’d accidental it’s a blimpish mode to bash it, but that’s precisely however I deliberation too.

Some radical might’ve conscionable said, I request the 30 grand, and let’s get going, but you had the $30k and the wage replacement —  it’s a no-lose scenario.

Julie: And Florida, the outgo of surviving here, it’s unsmooth — particularly successful Orlando. Jobs don’t wage arsenic overmuch arsenic they should, and rent’s really, truly high.

If I didn’t person the recurring income, I couldn’t unrecorded disconnected of $30,000 for precise agelong — astatine slightest successful Orlando — and inactive beryllium capable to put successful my sites.

So I truly didn’t person an option.

Niche Selection

Matt: That’s an absorbing fact. So, with your tiny portfolio of sites that you were moving connected erstwhile you’re astatine the agency, what benignant of niches were you getting into?

You don’t person to drill down precisely into micro-niche, but successful general.

Julie: At the time, I was fundamentally doing 100% Amazon sites. So, the archetypal tract that I started, I don’t really see my archetypal website due to the fact that it was an implicit flop. It didn’t bash anything.

I fto the domain sanction expire successful the end, but it was a idiosyncratic happening that I liked: motorcycles. So it was a niche tract based astir motorcycles.

I utilized to thrust — but it turns retired it’s a unspeakable niche for affiliate!

That was my archetypal website. Then the tract that I sold for $30k was successful the outdoor niche. When I was doing mostly Amazon, it was a batch of sports, outdoors, location betterment —stuff similar that.

Basically, niches wherever the products were costly connected Amazon is wherever I was astatine at the time.

Matt: Did you ever physique connected immoderate expired domains, oregon were you ever gathering connected marque caller domains?

Julie: The archetypal 2 sites were built earlier I adjacent knew that expired domains were a morganatic mode to bash anything, truthful it was each conscionable caller stuff.

Keyword Research

Matt: How bash you bash your keyword research?

Julie: At the clip oregon now?

Matt: Let’s speech astir now, let’s beryllium much relevant.

Julie: Now, alternatively of starting with a keyword, I commencement with a competitor.

If I find a niche that I deliberation is going to beryllium profitable, I don’t conscionable propulsion immoderate I consciousness mightiness beryllium a bully thought into Ahrefs. If I’m not an adept successful the niche, I’m not going to person each the bully ideas anyway.

So, present I commencement with uncovering a rival that’s ranking and a akin size website to mine. Not a tract that’s ace micro niche but besides not a website that’s ace high-authority.

Then I’ll propulsion that tract into Ahrefs and spot what pages are generating the astir traffic, and past cross-reference that with however costly the items are, however apt they are to merchantability online, worldly similar that.

And past it’s conscionable Ahref rabbit holes and Excel sheets from there!

Matt: I cognize the Ahrefs rabbit holes! “Just 1 much hour. I conscionable privation to decorativeness up this spreadsheet…”

Julie: “Wait, this exists? What is this? Now I person 500 much keywords!”

Matt: Exactly!

You hinted astir niche versus authorization sites. Let’s speech astir that…

Don’t fto maine enactment words successful your mouth, but it sounds similar you were gathering niche sites successful the opening — motorcycles, outdoors and worldly similar that.

So were you niche earlier and authorization now, oregon are you inactive keeping it niche?

Julie: I similar to person my domain names specified that they person country to grow, but they’re inactive considered niche sites.

If I were to usage a motorcycle tract arsenic an example, it wouldn’t beryllium motorcyclegloves.com. It’d conscionable beryllium motorcycle.com oregon thing similar that, truthful that I person country to grow wrong the niche.

But astatine the extremity of the day, yeah, it’s inactive niche sites.

Check retired this video connected however to bash keyword probe with Google Trends.

Onsite Optimization and Content

Matt: Let’s displacement from gathering websites and niches and get into onsite SEO.

How bash you spell astir creating content?

Are you outsourcing it?

Are you penning it yourself?

Julie: At this point, I outsource each of it due to the fact that I  conscionable don’t person clip to bust retired the magnitude of contented you request now.

When I archetypal started, I wrote it each myself conscionable to prevention wealth due to the fact that bully contented is expensive. But now, I’m astatine the constituent wherever I tin outsource it, which is wonderful.

Matt: Cool, wherever are you getting your writers from, if you don’t caput sharing?

Julie: I’ve been moving with 1 writer for a agelong time. As I said, I person a tiny portfolio of sites now, truthful I don’t person capable to max her out, but I recovered her based connected a proposal successful a Facebook radical oregon thing similar that.

Matt: How astir different kinds of help? Do you person VAs? Do you person contented editors? Let’s conscionable bash a little overview of your squad and however you operation that.

Julie: Yeah, it’s small. It’s maine and 1 and a fractional contented writers. I person 1 miss I usage for easier blog topics, arsenic she’s a small spot little expensive.

Then I person a VA that does nexus gathering outreach and different VA that handles fundamentally each the piddly enactment needed connected a website.

He publishes content. If there’s thing technically incorrect with the site, helium tin hole it. He tin bash site-speed optimization, helium tin bash immoderate basal on-page SEO. And if, for example, I bash an A/B trial and find that a fastener needs to beryllium a antithetic color, he’ll grip the changes crossed the board.

Matt: Interesting. One of the astir communal questions I get asked is how to prosecute effectively and wherever to find bully people. ..

Can you springiness immoderate benignant of proposal connected wherever you tin find wide VA benignant positions, wherever you tin find writers and radical similar that?

Julie: The champion portion of proposal I tin springiness is don’t beryllium acrophobic to occurrence idiosyncratic conscionable due to the fact that it took a portion to find someone. You’re going to prosecute bully freelancers and atrocious ones.

Hire quick, occurrence speedy — until you find the close fit.

Matt: Would you accidental astir of your hires are coming from Upwork oregon different sources?

Julie: Upwork and past idiosyncratic recommendations for contented writers…

Matt: Got it. OK, let’s get backmost to the content. How agelong bash you marque your articles, and however bash you find that?

Julie: It depends connected the competition. Most of the time, it’s astir 2,000 words.

I’ve been utilizing Surfer a batch lately, truthful truly what utilized to beryllium a manual process Surfer makes truly easy. I usage a batch of Surfer’s recommendations and benignant of instrumentality it from there.

Matt: Cool, I agree. Surfer conscionable makes things a batch easier and scalable.

Speaking of Surfer, what’re your thoughts connected keyword density?

Myth? Real? Do you wage attraction to it?

Julie: I deliberation it’s utile successful presumption of NLP stuff, keyword stuffing — it depends connected the SERP, really.

If it’s moving successful a peculiar niche, bash it. Generally speaking, I deliberation it’s fundamentally dead, but each SERP is different. So you benignant of person to spell into the SERP and see. But I would say, for the astir part, it’s done.

Matt: So, keyword density is dormant successful the consciousness that you wouldn’t worldly keywords conscionable for the involvement of ranking. But utilizing immoderate benignant of algorithm oregon an API similar Google’s NLP tin perchance assistance you marque amended decisions with your content?

Julie: Absolutely, but adjacent that is based connected the competition. So, if for immoderate reason, I’m successful a niche that’s ace spammy and my competitors are keyword stuffing, keyword stuffing is going to work.

You request to measure connected a case-by-case oregon niche-by-niche basis…

But I don’t deliberation there’s immoderate magic look that works crossed the committee erstwhile it comes to keyword density.

Matt: I’ve ne'er told this communicative earlier due to the fact that it was a website that I worked on.

But you cognize what? It’s been a agelong time, and those keywords are agelong gone. But I utilized to person a website ranking fig 1 for “how to brew beer.”

So, “how to brew beer,” each good, we’re fig 1 for that.

But, for the word “how to marque beer,” we’re connected leafage five.

How to brew beer, however to marque beer. Same nonstop hunt intent.

You can’t marque brew without brewing it. You can’t brew brew without making it…

Then we tossed our contented into a true density algorithm — which analyzes entities connected the leafage and assesses however often you usage definite words compared to the contention — it turned retired we’d utilized the connection “make” connected the leafage 60-something times…

In contrast, the competitor’s mean was astir 12.

So we toned the frequence down and changeable up from leafage 5 to fig two.

And, I was like, “You cognize what? I don’t attraction what radical accidental connected Twitter. This density stuff, it’s real. I conscionable saw it enactment close successful beforehand of my eyes.”

Julie: Just to piggyback disconnected that, keyword density is existent erstwhile related to the competitors that are ranking. You’re not conscionable blatantly keyword stuffing contented conscionable for the involvement of stuffing it.

You’re stuffing it based connected what’s moving — oregon unstuffing it successful your case.

Matt: That’s precisely right!

How often bash you people caller content, and does that alteration based connected the benignant of website?

Like, for an established website, bash you people faster oregon slower?

Julie: For newer sites, I really people faster conscionable to get the wide relevance built up.

For sites nether a twelvemonth old, I’ll bash possibly 10 oregon 15 articles a month. And then, erstwhile it gets to a definite constituent — typically astir 40 posts depending connected the niche — I’ll gradually dilatory down to astir 1 nonfiction a week.

That tin beryllium buyers guides, that tin beryllium supporting contented — conscionable keeping things fresh.

Matt: Very nice, precise nice.

Let’s speech astir interlinking — a blazing blistery taxable this year.

Internally linking assorted pages connected your sites, what benignant of process bash you usage for that?

Julie: I utilized to beryllium super, ace strict with it. I’ve gotten a small spot looser arsenic I’ve fine-tuned my skills. I similar to deliberation of it arsenic topic clusters. So that’s besides the mode that I keyword plan.

Instead of conscionable reasoning of one, two, 3 antithetic random keywords, I’ll instrumentality 1 taxable idea, keyword probe that radical altogether, and past interlink them each to each other.

Now, the lone mode that I would spell extracurricular of that is if determination is simply a taxable successful different clump that people relates back.

So it’s benignant of a premix of emblematic method SEO silo interlinking with a small spot of what “just makes sense” mixed in.

Matt: Speaking of silos, bash you ever travel immoderate of the “traditional” silo structures? For example, the top-down silo, the reverse silo, oregon akin highly structured and planned retired configurations?

Julie: I utilized to usage silos similar that erstwhile I did section SEO — erstwhile it was much astir services.

But present that I’m afloat affiliate, I find that astatine slightest successful my case, it matters somewhat less.

I usually don’t effort to fertile for ace high-competition keywords — thing I’d see a apical tier keyword. I’m mostly aft tier 2 keywords, thing that’s a small spot little competitive.

So, successful bid to physique retired the URL operation and each that, I would fundamentally beryllium making a leafage that I was going to bash thing with — that I person nary volition of ranking.

I fundamentally conscionable interlink pages without doing immoderate elaborate URL structuring, for the astir part.

Matt: Do you bash immoderate featured snippet optimization?

Julie: I do! But arsenic of precocious — and I’m assuming you’ve noticed this arsenic good — featured snippets much oregon little dropped disconnected the look of the earth.

So it utilized to beryllium thing that I would absorption on. I would spell bash featured snippet optimization similar doubly a period for each my sites.

I’ve benignant of backed disconnected connected that, simply due to the fact that I can’t find snippets for a batch of keywords anymore.

Matt: Let’s unreal we lived successful a satellite that had consistency successful the SERPs…

How would you optimize for featured snippets?

Julie: So, successful this unreal world, wherever Google does what we privation them to do?

I would Google a keyword and see, archetypal of all, who has the snippet and what benignant of snippet it is…

If it’s a database snippet that gives maine an denotation of what Google is looking for. If it’s a paragraph snippet, that gives maine different clue.

First of all, I’ll spot however they got the snippet — look astatine what accusation Google is really pulling — and past I’ll spot wherever I americium successful the database of things.

You tin exclude competitor’s websites from the SERPs, past you tin get a consciousness of wherever you autumn successful enactment for the snippet.

Once I person an thought what the contention is doing, I’ll bash immoderate tweaks connected my tract and re-index it…

If it indexes quickly, that’s fantastic — I’ll cheque to see, person I moved up? Have I moved down?

Now, if I’ve moved up, I would support the change. Or if I stayed successful the aforesaid spot, I’d support the change.

If I moved down, I’d revert the changes and effort thing other until it works.

It’s truly each astir persistence. If you effort hard enough, 9 times retired of 10, you’ll seizure the snippet, arsenic agelong arsenic you’re successful the apical three.

Matt: The large proceedings and mistake process. The bully happening astir featured snippet optimization — and I’m definite you recovered this arsenic good — is that the feedback loop is truly quick.

You re-index it, re-crawl successful GSC, and you should spot whether your alteration scored you the snippet.

Julie: Exactly. I’ve recovered Search Console sometimes indexes close away, and sometimes it doesn’t. So if you’re Google’s bully books and get indexed instantly — absolutely, you tin cognize close away.

Matt: Any different on-site SEO tips that you felt got bully gains for your websites that we haven’t touched upon?

Julie: The biggest happening I uncover erstwhile I audit sites close present is however fewer radical optimize the astir invaluable SEO existent property connected a website: your URL, your rubric tag, and your H1.

So galore radical person identical Title and H1 tags, which leaves a ton of imaginable long-tail keywords connected the table.

If you’re lone optimizing for 1 keyword, you’re missing retired connected 20 antithetic things…

Take a mates minutes, spell into Ahrefs, spot what variations of the keyword determination are, and premix up your rubric and your H1 conscionable truthful that you tin people much keywords.

Matt: Yes, I hold 100%!

As you know, successful The Affiliate Lab, we telephone this The Three Kings,

It’s truthful important that we had to formal it up with a silly sanction conscionable truthful you cognize that it’s essential.

Let’s rapidly pivot into offsite SEO…

Link Building and Offsite SEO

What benignant of links would you physique to a caller website?

Julie: I chiefly commencement with basal societal accounts. I’m talking Pinterest, Facebook, Twitter —  worldly similar that.

Not needfully for the involvement of getting a backlink, but conscionable to assertion that entity and to beryllium capable to nexus to it from the website, truthful it looks a small spot much real. But if the societal profiles index, great.

Matt: And what comes aft those societal profiles?

Julie: Well, first, I would hold for the tract to get retired of the sandbox. I’m not going to nexus to thing that’s not getting immoderate traffic.

Once I commencement seeing postulation travel in, adjacent if it’s conscionable a blog oregon thing that doesn’t person purchaser intent, I’ll commencement gathering impermanent station links to whatever’s ranking, conscionable truthful that it looks the astir natural. And if it does hap to beryllium a blog that’s not thing that I’m trying to monetize, I’ll usage interior links to benignant of funnel the nexus juice.

Then arsenic the tract grows, I commencement gathering links to pages that person earthy traction. And past the much the tract grows, the much authorization you have, the much that benignant of branches out.

Matt: So, you mentioned impermanent posts. Do you usage immoderate different benignant of benignant of backlinks different than impermanent posts?

Julie: I utilized to usage niche edits earlier I recovered retired that they were hacked sites.

That was a mates of years ago, but I inactive prosecute existent niche edits.

Once a tract is getting a small spot of traffic, I’ll archer my VA you tin go aft impermanent posts oregon if you privation to insert a nexus into an existing article, spell for it.

But I don’t bash that close distant conscionable due to the fact that it’s not truly natural.

And past I’m experimenting close present with Tier 2 PBN links. I perceive they’re getting bully results.

Matt: So you’re doing impermanent posts and nexus insertions, we’ll telephone it a nexus insertion alternatively of niche edits to differentiate from the hacked version.

But are you doing outreach for each this stuff, oregon are you purchasing immoderate of them from vendors?

Julie: Outreach and purchase. Basically, I acquisition the links I root done outreach.

Matt: Can you springiness radical immoderate penetration connected however to get started with outreach? Like an illustration template you usage arsenic the archetypal interaction erstwhile you’re reaching retired to idiosyncratic to say, “Hey, I’m funny successful getting a nexus connected your blog.”

Julie: I person immoderate benignant of absorbing taxable lines, thing that isn’t conscionable the tally of the mill, “Hello, benignant sir, fto maine physique a link.” I effort to drawback their attention.

If I’m doing it myself and it’s a people I truly attraction about, I’ll see thing personalized successful the taxable enactment truthful that they cognize it’s not spammy.

To beryllium honest, I personally haven’t done outreach successful a agelong time. My VA conscionable benignant of handles it.

I didn’t adjacent specifically bid him due to the fact that I didn’t person an outreach SOP built retired that I was assured in. I hired a VA who had taken definite SEO courses and gave them the accidental to beryllium themselves.

Matt: That’s an awesome answer! That’s what I privation to perceive high-level operators saying: “You cognize what? To beryllium honest, I don’t adjacent cognize what my outreach idiosyncratic is penning these days, due to the fact that I hired idiosyncratic who’s doing it amended than I could — and I’ve fixed them 100% ownership of the task.”

Do you cognize what tools you’re utilizing for outreach?

Julie: When I was doing it myself, I would usage BuzzStream conscionable to automate the existent sending of the emails, and past I would bash a batch of scraping, utilizing Ahrefs and Google, conscionable basal worldly similar that.

Good aged Excel spreadsheets too, but BuzzStream was the biggest instrumentality I used.

Matt: How galore links bash you similar to physique per month, per site?

Julie: It depends connected however large the tract is. When I person a caller site, astir 5 to 10, and past arsenic it grows, I get up to 20, 25. That’s the max that I nonstop to a tract close now.

So it benignant of stays wrong that window, depending connected however overmuch postulation is getting, however aged the tract is, and competitor’s nexus velocity.

Matt: You ever request to cognize that you’re outpacing your competition, oregon you tin ne'er expect to bushed them.

So what are you doing for anchor texts?

Julie: Again, it’s based connected competition…

I deliberation it mightiness really beryllium your technique that I’m utilizing — I’ve been utilizing it for truthful agelong now!

You instrumentality the sites connected the archetypal leafage of Google, look astatine their anchor text, cipher an average, and usage that to pass what you request to do. And, arsenic I mentioned earlier with keyword density, it changes per the SERP.

Back successful the day, I would think, hey, you request 50% keyword anchors, 50% URLs, oregon immoderate the heck it was.

Totally propulsion each that retired the window! It varies for each azygous hunt term. You person to basal it disconnected the competition, and past you conscionable instrumentality the average.

Matt: Amen, sister, amen!

What astir societal signals — usage them, oregon don’t care?

Julie: Don’t care!

Matt: That falls successful the “don’t care” bucket.

Do you support way of no-follow versus do-follow ratios?

Julie: No, possibly I should, but I don’t.

I’ve recovered that they benignant of look people arsenic the tract grows.

I pull the links that I physique for immoderate reason, whether it’s syndication sites oregon whatever.

I thin to prime up no-follow links conscionable by existing, truthful it’s not thing that I truly enactment a batch of effort into.

Matt: How astir let’s decorativeness up with immoderate different off-site SEO tips that you could urge oregon immoderate different nexus gathering cognition bombs that you privation to drop?

Julie: Not a cognition weaponry but a world cheque — links outgo money. If you’re connected a choky budget, you’re going to person to physique links yourself…

But adjacent if you’re doing it yourself, expect to wage anyplace from $30 to $60 positive for each azygous link. Webmasters are connected to the information that charging for links is simply a bully mode to marque money, and there’s nary mode astir it.

If idiosyncratic offers you a $20 nexus connected a website, there’s astir apt a crushed wherefore it’s $20, and you don’t privation that. So conscionable beryllium acceptable to walk wealth — you person to astatine this point.

Monetization (and How to Get disconnected Amazon!)

Matt: Perfect segue — money. Let’s speech astir monetization. How bash you similar to monetize your affiliate sites?

Julie: Just bully aged affiliate links. I played astir with ads mode backmost when… I don’t bash it now. My thought process is, if I tin get a click connected an advertisement that gets maine a penny and a half, I’m perchance losing an affiliate click that could get maine a mates of 100 dollars.

Maybe I’m conscionable being excessively cautious, but the hazard of losing that imaginable affiliate click prevents maine from being enticed by however overmuch I tin marque with ads.

To find retired if you should enactment show ads connected your affiliate website, ticker this video.

Matt: Sure, sure. And with these affiliate links, wherever are you sending them?

Julie: I utilized to bash a batch of Amazon, astir apt astir 80-90%. When was it? March oregon April erstwhile Amazon did their large cut?

I was astir 90% Amazon astatine that time, and present I’m astatine astir 25%. Now I nonstop astir of my postulation to manufacturers that bid the highest and person the astir applicable products.

Matt: Good connected you. You’ve caught my oculus successful The Affiliate Lab galore times for sharing cognition bombs, whether you deliberation truthful oregon not. One happening I’ve noticed is that you person a knack for replacing Amazon arsenic a vendor and moving with brands and manufacturers directly. Can you talk a small spot much astir that?

Julie: Whether you’re an affiliate oregon you’re successful section SEO, it’s an manufacture wherever radical similar to hide. You’re going to basal retired if you’re consenting to beryllium personable and anxious to speech to people.

Here’s however I onshore the preferential deals that I’m capable to get…

First of all, I’ll use for an affiliate program. I’ll nonstop the vendor each my tract stats — whether oregon not I get approved, they get an email close distant that lays everything out.

Now, if I person capable postulation wherever I consciousness confident, portion of that email is, “Hey, let’s get connected the phone, let’s person a conversation.”

Then, fto them speech astir the products, marque them consciousness lukewarm and fuzzy, and past speech astir what I bring to the table.

At the extremity of the conversation, you say, “Hey, is this the champion you’re consenting to offer? How tin I get a higher commission?”

Just get connected the telephone and speech to idiosyncratic astatine the company. You mightiness not adjacent extremity up talking astir affiliate commissions. Just the different day, I ended up having a speech with a shaper astir fishing.

If you instrumentality the clip to get to cognize idiosyncratic personally, they’re overmuch much apt to privation to enactment with you, and they often person a batch of wiggle country connected percentages.

Let’s accidental a basal committee starts astatine 10%. I warrant you they tin spell up to 25% oregon higher if you marque it worthwhile for them and if you support it real…

Be nice, beryllium likable, and physique a relationship.

Many radical are uncomfortable with this process, but that’s however I’ve been capable to get overmuch higher commissions.

Matt: What’s the minimum committee complaint you find acceptable to determination disconnected Amazon? Amazon has astonishing conversion rates, but obviously, wealth talks…

Julie: I ever accidental 10%, and that’s contingent connected it not being different online mall…

Let’s unreal for a 2nd that Home Depot oregon eBay oregon immoderate offers much than fractionally higher commissions than Amazon…

Platforms different than Amazon that aren’t nonstop shaper sites don’t person arsenic good arsenic Amazon.

Manufacturer sites mostly beryllium to merchantability a singular product. They person a beauteous landing page, etc.

With Amazon — you person Amazon addicts, and they person good — but different online malls don’t person that.

So erstwhile linking straight to manufacturers arsenic opposed to different malls, I would accidental 10% is the minimum committee rate.

Matt: I privation to echo what you said. I usage 10% arsenic a starting point, and that tin spell up oregon down depending connected the landing page’s beauty.

If it’s horrid, if it looks similar 1 of those old-school compression pages and conscionable screams scam, you’re going to person to springiness maine 30 oregon 40% — and it’s conscionable a test, right?

Julie: And adjacent still, if it doesn’t convert, 50%, 70%, immoderate — it doesn’t matter, it’s inactive $0.

Matt: For sure. I’m assuming you’re investigating arsenic well? I mean, conscionable due to the fact that you determination disconnected Amazon and you find this 10% woody doesn’t mean it’s going to person well.

So, however bash you operation these kinds of tests?

Do you usage the caller supplier for a period and past conscionable spot which 1 made the astir money?

Julie: Basically, yeah…

I really usage a shorter investigating play — it’s a mates of weeks.

What I bash is instrumentality my highest performing leafage — it gets the astir traffic, truthful I tin stitchery the astir information successful a abbreviated magnitude of clip — past I spot this caller supplier either fig 1 oregon fig two, and conscionable ticker it similar a hawk.

I spot however galore clicks it’s getting and if it has immoderate conversions. Honestly, my mean conversion complaint is betwixt 1 and 2% close now, truthful I’m looking for astatine slightest that.

If I commencement making bully wealth disconnected it, I’ll conscionable power from Amazon crossed the board, but I commencement with one, possibly 2 pages.

Matt: That makes sense. Do you ever bash immoderate A/B investigating to trial retired Amazon versus different supplier, oregon are they ever serial tests? You conscionable regenerate and past trial and past power backmost if the show isn’t there?

Julie: I conscionable bash replacement tests due to the fact that I’m trying to get distant from Amazon arsenic overmuch arsenic imaginable close now. Even if Amazon is better, I don’t spot them anymore. So, there’s nary consciousness successful divided investigating if I privation to get escaped of them anyway.

Matt: I’m not going to disagree with that. We’ve been preaching against Amazon successful The Affiliate Lab since the beginning. In fact, the 3rd acquisition successful The Affiliate Lab is wherefore we don’t similar having Amazon!

Julie: Don’t you person a communicative wherever you mislaid similar $90,000 oregon thing brainsick similar that?

Matt: No, it was $150k. They inactive person that.

Let’s speech astir postulation diversification. Do you get each your postulation from integrated search? Do you messiness astir with immoderate PPC oregon email marketing?

Julie: Organic is what I know… When I was astatine the agency, I dabbled successful paid ads. And erstwhile I accidental dabble, I mean, I would look implicit idiosyncratic else’s enarthrosis erstwhile I went to get coffee.

It’s not thing that I person grooming in. It’s not thing I’m ace assured about.

To beryllium honest, with a batch of affiliate deals, unless you person a super, ace precocious committee complaint to advertise connected Google specifically, it’s beauteous debased margins.

Now with Facebook, if I person a truly precocious committee product, I’ll bash a small spot of advertizing connected Facebook, but that’s it.

Matt: How astir email funnels — similar offering a pb magnet, getting them successful an automated series, and past gathering up astatine slightest a 10,000 idiosyncratic list. Then anytime you merchandise a caller station you’re driving 10,000 radical backmost to that station who could convert.

Do you person acquisition with that?

Julie: I spot a ton of worth determination because, one, it’s postulation you tin control, and, two, it’s postulation that ‘s infinitely increasing arsenic agelong arsenic your database is precocious quality.

I’m inactive learning, inactive a babe there. I deliberation it’s viable, truthful I’m looking into it now.

Matt: Cool. So thing is holding you backmost from email selling — it’s conscionable a enactment successful progress.

It seems that you’re not frightened to effort caller things, you similar challenges — and arsenic you said, you similar to beryllium uncomfortable — which is simply a motion of growth, for sure.

Scaling

Speaking of growth, what’s your program for scaling your portfolio?

Do you privation to get into much niches? How galore sites bash you person now, and wherever bash you privation to beryllium successful the future?

Julie: Right now, I person six oregon 7 sites, truthful it’s comparatively small.

I’ve said from the opening that… Look, I’m not going to accidental I don’t emotion money, but wealth is not my main information — it’s time.

I privation to person a portfolio that I tin enactment 4 oregon 5 hours a time into. I don’t attraction what enactment I’m doing, but that’s however galore hours I privation to enactment per day.

So whether I’m scaling oregon taking a measurement backmost successful bid to reinvest wealth to trim my operational involvement, I’m unfastened to that…

But I don’t privation to turn and enactment much conscionable for the involvement of making adjacent much money, due to the fact that I’m doing beauteous bully close now.

Matt: That’s interesting. So, if your superior information is time, it seems similar you’re much funny successful scaling your squad and phasing yourself retired of operations alternatively than scaling your portfolio.

Julie: Exactly, yes. If I tin bash 4 hours of enactment a time wherever I’m not doing immoderate SEO and I’m conscionable managing a team, great. That’s wholly connected my radar. And if I tin marque much wealth doing that, excellent.

I cognize I’m not going to beryllium present and physique a ton much sites with conscionable myself astatine the helm. So, if I privation to grow, I’m increasing with radical — not needfully conscionable much sites.

Matt: Let’s accidental you’re deciding to physique a caller site. Let’s accidental you flip a bully one, you person immoderate escaped time, and you privation to physique a caller one…

Would you spell for a niche site, authorization site, oregon spell for 1 of the hardcore niches similar CBD, payday loans, oregon casino. What’s that looking similar for you?

Julie: I similar to enactment distant from your money, your beingness (YMYL) niches, due to the fact that it’s hyper-competitive and it takes a batch much wealth to beryllium capable to vie there.

And also, not that I person thing against anybody that does it, but if I’m not an adept connected thing fiscal oregon health-related, conscionable from an ethical standpoint, I don’t privation to interaction it.

I don’t privation to urge products that I don’t personally judge in.

So unless I go an existent adept astatine thing successful YMYL,  I would alternatively conscionable enactment successful “safer” niches.

Does that reply your question?

Matt: That works for me! Any regrets moving to 99.9% affiliate?

Julie: As I mentioned, I enactment 4 hours a time now. So, I went from moving 40 hours a week to 20, 25 maybe.

No regrets. I americium truthful overmuch happier. My work/life equilibrium is great. I’m making much money. I person much time. I’m arrogant of myself.

Everybody suspects I merchantability drugs oregon something, I’m sure. At slightest each of my household thinks so!

But nary regrets, this is the champion determination I’ve ever made.

Matt: That’s awesome to hear!

Do you person immoderate proposal for radical successful a akin presumption to erstwhile you were backmost astatine the bureau oregon adjacent beginner SEOs that are conscionable deciding betwixt affiliate oregon driblet shipping oregon staying astatine a nine-to-five?

What proposal bash you person for radical similar that?

Julie: If you’re bully astatine SEO, bash it!

But, if you deliberation affiliate is immoderate benignant of get-rich-quick strategy that doesn’t necessitate immoderate clip oregon immoderate wealth — you’re going to discarded a batch of some if you effort to prosecute this.

You request to cognize getting into affiliate marketing, that it’s going to instrumentality wealth to get started, it’ll instrumentality a batch of time, and you person to beryllium comparatively bully astatine SEO.

If you’re conscionable getting started with affiliate SEO — great, due to the fact that you tin learn, but don’t expect to afloat succeed.

Keep your expectations successful check, and don’t beryllium acrophobic to neglect — adjacent though I’m acrophobic to fail, we’re each acrophobic to neglect — don’t beryllium frightened of failure.

Maybe I’m preaching to the choir here, but you’re astir apt going to neglect connected your archetypal 1 oregon 2 sites, I warrant you that.

Matt, you person a mates of failures nether your loop arsenic well…

People lone spot occurrence online. They don’t spot immoderate of the failures. So, conscionable support chugging along.

Matt: How would you urge getting started? Because you had an fantabulous acquisition of starting disconnected successful an agency… Would you urge radical get their acquisition astatine an bureau and permission them precocious and dry?

I’m conscionable kidding!

Julie: I’d accidental that if you person an accidental to get what I called “paid schooling” towards the extremity of my clip astatine the bureau — spell for it! I learned truthful much, and possibly you’ll extremity up loving it.

There’s nary amended mode to larn than to do, and I cognize you’re half-joking with your question but successful each honesty, being an bureau gives you a fistful of clients to larn with. So, yeah, I would urge it.

Matt: Got it.

Alright, truthful earlier we wrapper this up — convey you for this awesome interview.

I’m definite radical learned a batch of things — not lone astir your travel but your process, however you fertile websites, what you wage attraction to, and however you bash things.

I’m excited to denote that you’ll beryllium making much appearances connected this YouTube channel and coming up with a bid of talks and discussions.

Do you privation to speech a small spot much astir what we tin expect?

Julie: As we’ve been discussing this full time. I travel from a local SEO bureau background, and present I bash lone bash affiliate.

So, I person a precise wide scope of proposal to bring to the table. And not lone astir SEO, but going backmost to having 80 clients astatine once…

So overmuch of what goes into occurrence is enactment and knowing wherever to dedicate your clip to marque much money.

So I’ll beryllium talking astir each that’s progressive with that, arsenic good arsenic worldly similar conversion complaint optimization — however to marque much wealth with the aforesaid magnitude of postulation you already have.

I’m going to beryllium bringing each my cognition and acquisition to the array — I’m excited!

Matt: I’m excited! And you guys watching should beryllium excited too!

Julie, Thanks truthful overmuch for your time. It’s been eye-opening.

You’re awesome and congrats connected each your success.

Julie: See you again connected this transmission soon!

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